Don't Do It Just Like the World, but Expect Different Results

I was prompted to blog today by this post over at Dalrock.

Dalrock was asked some questions by a commenter named Rachel about how to help her daughters find husbands. Her inquiries concerned her daughters' behavior with young men and whether a Christian girl should "settle" in choosing a marriage partner. This mother obviously has concerns about her daughters being at risk for spinsterhood and she wants to avoid that. 

While Rachel didn't mention her husband, Dalrock said that she does have a husband. If that is the case, why is she not following his lead on this matter of marrying off the daughters? Why did Dalrock, who blogs specifically for Christian men, not direct her to seek wisdom from her husband? To his credit, Dalrock admitted that he has no experience in this area. But one thing I have learned from knowing God is that God empowers those whom He has put in authority and gives wisdom to those who ask, without upbraiding.

Unfortunately, Dalrock went on to offer advice on the behavior of young women in general. By doing this, he is consenting to the presupposition that single women should be on the hunt for their own husbands and that they are somehow qualified by their design to do this. It is saying, if only we can explain these things to women, they will behave exactly correctly and use good judgment and make right decisions. And yet we know, and Dalrock knows from his years in the manosphere that women, by their very design, do NOT make good decisions based on reason and sense.

Women are simply unqualified to decide who they should marry. It isn't a matter of intelligence or training. It isn't even a matter of godly character.

What should Dalrock have done instead? He should have appealed to men who have already had success with their daughters. He should have appealed to men who have spent years studying the Bible to see what God has said about marriage, about sex, and about avoiding fornication. Interestingly, in the comments, such a man appeared!

Most of the comments consist of complaining about how awful women are and how hopeless it is to think a man can get a good wife or that daughters can be raised to adulthood without rebelling and fornicating and choosing the world over Christ. And when a commenter suggests that dads can have fulfilling marriages and joyful daughters who look to dad to find them a husband by following the guidance of the Word, the other men pile on with shouts of "You'll go to jail!" "It can't be done!" "It's too hard!" "No one will like you!"

Yes. Daddy is not a popular guy. So what? Do you want your daughter to be a fornicator or a spinster? Do you want her to be a shrieking feminist? If not, take heart. God is good and He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.

There are a LOT of comments, so hopefully this link will take you to where the good comments start.

As A Jewel Of Gold in a Swine's Snout..

As a jewel of gold in a swine's snout, so is a fair woman which is without discretion.  Proverbs 11:22

Noah Webster described discretion like this:

1. Prudence, or knowledge and prudence; that discernment which enables a person to judge critically of what is correct and proper, united with caution; nice discernment and judgment, directed by circumspection, and primarily regarding ones' own conduct.

2. Liberty or power of acting without other control than one's own judgment; as the management of affairs was left to the discretion of the prince; he is left to his own discretion.

The primary audience I have in mind when writing here is one of women, Christian women, like myself. Wives, mothers, grandmothers, daughters and sisters. And this topic, I think, applies more particularly to women. That is not to say that all men are discreet, only that many women are indiscreet. It seems to be accepted as inevitable, with little or nothing being taught within Christian circles about how women should learn to practice discretion.

The aged women likewise...that they may teach the young women...to be discreet. Titus 2:3-5

 This is especially noticeable to me when I read fiction written a long time ago. Even fiction written by women. I offer the works of Jane Austen as an example. More on that later.

One of the ways I have been a witness (and a participant) in indiscretion is in the seemingly insatiable way that women want to know everything that is happening in the lives of every person they know. If the woman is a mother, this desire is often accompanied by a sense of entitlement to know every detail. Family members, church attendees, friends, even distant acquaintances, no one is excluded or protected from the constant acquiring and collecting of data. And to what end?

Obviously, the first use that comes to mind is gossip. Once she has the information, what else would she do with it except share it? After all, nothing hides indiscretion better than making it universal and therefore, normal. But even if she has the incredible self-control necessary to keep the information to herself, the tidbits themselves are up to no good within her mind. She is judging, comparing, formulating advice, imagining conversations, misunderstanding relationships, destroying reputations and wishing ill of others, all within the confines of her own brain box.

While it is fairly common to hear admonitions against gossip from the pulpit or in books and articles directed at Christian women, it is rare, VERY rare to hear anyone speak against wanting to know things in the first place. I can only think of one instance, and think it was in a radio broadcast by Elisabeth Elliot. I am just now coming to understand the peace that comes from not knowing things.  

I have my husband to thank for bringing this understanding to me in a very practical way. The Bible speaks of discretion, and in a non-personal, intellectual way, I probably believed I knew the meaning of discretion. It wasn't until we arranged a marriage for our daughter that I learned from experiencing it how discretion feels, how it works, what it entails, and what a blessing it is. How did he do this? Simply by not telling me things. He would speak with the father of our now-son-in-law, and my husband did not offer to let me know the things of which they spoke. He wasn't purposely keeping it from me, it wasn't that I asked and he refused to tell me. He just didn't think most of what they discussed was important or relevant to me. And he was right. (As usual.) I am not a naggy sort of person, and I trust my husband, so if he didn't offer up information, I didn't ask.

It wasn't until the whole thing (the arranged marriage) was done that I realized how blessed I was to have been out of the loop for most of the conversation. Now I can see that I would have been fretting over nothing, worried about mole hills, concerned for disaster, when actually everything was smooth sailing. I was spared much heart ache and nonsense that I might have created for myself. After we told the story to others, I was surprised to find that much of the shock people had was not so much that we arranged a marriage, but that I, the mother, was not intimately involved in the details. Other mothers could not even imagine letting their husbands handle such a thing, and even if they let them, they would want to be consulted at every step and be told every word spoken on the subject.  Why? Because they, like the old me, have no understanding of discretion. They are, unfortunately, like bejeweled swine. 

Our family has been hurt by indiscretion. You have probably been hurt by it. People say things they shouldn't say because others want to hear things they shouldn't hear. After the hearing, the information gets distorted like a typical game of Telephone. Woe is everyone if the information gets re-shared.

My challenge to you, Christian woman, is this: Try not to know. Try not to desire to know. Reject hearing about things, even when the information is offered without your asking. Don't ask people about their relationships. Don't ask for or listen to people talking about OTHER PEOPLE'S relationships! Are the ladies next to you discussing the courtship of so-and-so with what's-her-name? Move to a different seat so you can't hear. If someone begins a statement with, "Don't tell anyone about this because the whole family doesn't know yet...."  RUN! Did you hear me? RUN! This is not for you to know.

Sometimes, for whatever reason, we come into the knowledge of something that either does not concern us, or only concerns us in a very peripheral way. When that happens, resist the urge to dwell on it. Or to make judgments. Your first impressions may be wrong, or the entire situation may change so much over time that your revelations to others on the matter will result in hurt that never needed to occur. Here I am going to return to my previous mention of Jane Austen. I am sorry if you are not familiar with her books or with the movies based upon them. Maybe this blog post will inspire you to take a look.

 In "Pride and Prejudice" the main character is the second oldest of 5 sisters. Her name is Elizabeth Bennett. During the course of the story, Elizabeth becomes privy to information about two other characters who eventually become the husbands of two of her sisters. As I watched this being portrayed in a movie, I felt very strongly that Elizabeth should go share this information. I felt is so strongly, that I nearly wanted to jump out of my chair and shout it at the older sister, Jane. In my mind, Jane would have been comforted to know that her suitor loved her, but was dissuaded from marrying her because of the undue influence of his rich friend. Why wouldn't Elizabeth immediately tell Jane about this?

Elizabeth, does share her information about the other young man with her sister, Jane, but only because Jane is known for her kind heart and her discretion, and Elizabeth needs the advice of her sister with how to deal with this potentially explosive information which could ruin the reputation of the young man, as well as that of a young lady who was formerly involved in a scandal with him. Jane advises her to let the information die with them.

The women in "Pride and Prejudice" tend to fall into two, very distinct categories. Those who are discrete, and those who are not. Only Elizabeth seems to fall into neither category. This is fiction, so it is easy to force women into boxes, but in real life, none of us are fully one or the other. The indiscreet women are portrayed as having bad character (Lydia, Kitty, Mrs. Bennett, Lady Lucas), while discreet women are generally portrayed as being good. These distinctions do not exist, or barely exist today. Most of us would be hard pressed to identify an act of indiscretion, and we are all so thoroughly immersed in our own indiscreet and loquacious ways, that we wouldn't dare point a finger at another woman. One woman even tries to make lack of discretion into a virtue.

So Elizabeth shares her secret knowledge of  Mr. Wickham, but doesn't reveal what she knows of Jane's would-be-suitor, Mr. Bingley. In the end, things work out. Jane is married by Mr. Bingley, never having been hurt by the information known by Elizabeth. Mr. Wickham's bad character is revealed on its own, without any assistance from Elizabeth, protecting the reputation of the more-or-less innocent third party. Mr. Wickham marries Elizabeth's youngest sister, Lydia.

What is striking to me is that during the 19th century, it was obvious to everyone that women have a problem with discretion and that discretion was considered a virtue. Today, if we don't immediately tweet something we heard or saw, or we wait one day before making a facebook post about something, we are considered to be highly restrained. What also struck me as interesting about the 19th century, was that it was not considered necessarily inappropriate for a man to rebuke a woman for public bad behavior. If a man tried that today, he would probably get sued and the woman would remain offended until the day she died.

I recently (within the past 3 years) had a man rebuke me for interrupting him in a conversation. The rebuke was strong. I fully deserved it, but it was quite the blow because I am so used to being allowed to run all over people. I had unconsciously come to believe that civilized men don't attempt to restrict the behavior of women. We just do as we please and expect our husbands to cover for us. Or intercede for us. My husband was right there when this happened, and said nothing. He knew I deserved it, too. I had to use all the power of my logical brain to force down my feelings that the man was trying to offend me. He intended no offense at all. It was just a statement of fact that he had let me finish my thought and he was entitled to the same courtesy. It was terribly embarrassing for me, not just because the poor man had to call me out, but also because I was not saying anything at all worth saying. I was adding NOTHING to the conversation. I just wanted to talk. I just insisted on having my say on the matter and more. It was shamefully indiscreet. My husband is such a patient man to even take me out in public.

It is much too late to try to cut this short, so I will just leave this here. I  hope you were edified. Writing this has been a good and much needed reminder for me.

Arranged Marriage - The Daughter's Perspective

I've given my view of the arranged marriage of my daughter in two parts found here and here.

My husband has also written about the process here.

Today it gives me great pleasure to share my daughter's testimony of the matter. Her story is not a typical romance story or a courtship story, because she did not get to know her husband in that way until after they were married. Instead you are about to read about a many-year journey of the heart. I hope you will be amazed and encouraged, as I was, to read of the sovereignty and goodness of God in the life of a young woman.

A few months before I turned 11, my mother made an announcement to me and my three siblings. She was going to remarry. She would be marrying a man she met in law school and the wedding would take place in a month or two.

My mother and biological father had been divorced since I was 2 and I was very excited by the news of her remarrying, as I knew she could not have any more children until she was married and I very much wanted more younger siblings.

A year and a half later we moved from my childhood home-state to the state where my step father was from originally. This was also exciting for me. The new home was in the country, with a river on our land and many places for adventurous children to play.  I looked forward to a new home and being next door to his parents, whom I quickly came to regard as my own grandparents, and the affection was returned with greater vigor.

Through the years I began to become unhappy with the changes in my life that, at the time, had created such excitement in me. I began to resent the man who took charge of our family and made changes to us that were, to me, hard. This resentment only got worse as I grew older. I did not trust that he was doing what was best for me and the relationship with my parents grew strained.

By 17 I had decided I no longer wanted to live with my mother and stepfather and had made arrangements to leave home forever and live with my biological dad. I was in a state of mourning with this decision. I greatly loved my younger siblings whom God had given to our family, and I knew from what my parents had said that if I left home I would not be allowed to see or talk with them.  During this time I did not read my bible, or pray in any way. I tried to succeed where all others had failed at ignoring God, and hoping to slip by unnoticed by Him. Perhaps He would forget me.  It is with great joy now I can say that He did not. When it came time, instead of leaving as I had planned, I came home. I do not know, even now, why I returned home from the trip I was on instead of going through with my plan, except to say God’s plan was unavoidable.

Once I was home I spoke with my stepfather and set before him how I was, and was still,  feeling, and the need I felt to do something drastic. I do not know how he truly felt about this, but after two or three months of prolonged conversations, I made a choice. I would stay at home. I would trust in God to provide for my happiness, and I would change my attitude to that of one of contentment.

This was a changing point in my life. I used to always plan for two futures, one at home and one away. I was prepared at any time to catch a ride to the airport and forever leave my family. Now I depended on God. I truly believed He placed me in this family for my own good, that He was sovereign and I could not escape His plan by running away, but I could certainly make that plan much harder on myself.

I am not proud of how I behaved, or my confusion as a teenager. I do not tell these things to bolster a view of me or show false pride in my actions. Rather I relate them so it can be known that I did not always trust  my parents. We have not always had the relationship we do now, and it was a struggle to get there. But even in the midst of my own fears and doubts, not the least of which was trusting my parents to search out and find the spouse I would live the rest of my life with, I make the conscious decision to trust not only them, but God.

After making my decision to stay home, my parents started to actively train me in wifely ways. They had tried before of course but, due to my attitude, while I could clean and cook not unwell, many of the spiritual lessons were lost on me. The ability to have a peaceful mind, a forgiving heart, and an understanding spirit had until this time been impossible to attain. We now talked of marriage often, and it was my earnest desire to be married. (I had wanted to be a wife and mother from a young age, but how to go about that had always eluded me.)

My parents explained to me how they were going to go about finding a husband for me, and the specific Scriptures that had lead them to this way of thinking. I was reassured to not feel pressured into doing this by myself. I was instructed to not show favoritism, to not seek out the favor of young men and to let my works be my apparel.  My parents urged me to protect my heart, and not let it float around, ready to be damaged.  Through some experiment I conducted on my own I came to the realization that “Attitude is Everything”. I could fully control my own attachments. By the end of a year I was firmly convinced I could love anyone.

I reached this conclusion by age 20 but I did not marry until just after my 22nd birthday. It was a long two years (was that all!) but I found contentment at home. I knew my parents (and especially my step-father)  were doing all in their power to go new places, usually 3-4 hours away, to meet new families and talk to fathers, but it all seemed to me to be taking too long. What was God, (and all these eligible sons) waiting for? ( I now know my sweet, wonderful and perfect husband was at that time fighting for his life in a hospital and was not available for marriage.)

Finally a good tip came in from a friend. Their church (about 4 hours away) had many young men who were looking for a spouse. Off we went to visit and sure enough there were more than one, or two, that I had no objection to at all. We met one family in particular and over the course of three months we saw them 3 times. For my family that was a lot of traveling and meeting them so often was encouraging, though I never suspected anything more.

(The following is my favorite part of the story so forgive me if I add too much detail.) Imagine my surprise when one day in May 2015 while at our favorite grocery store, my step-father took me in alone, and whilst buying me chocolate, let me know there was a young man who had answered the questionnaire my father and I had put together years ago, and that soon I might be asked to answer one as well. I tried not to show my excitement, but I am sure my father figured it out by the way I kept pestering him to see the suitors answers. Father did not want me to see the suitor’s answers until I had answered my own questions to prevent me from tailoring my answers. I suspected at this time the suitor was from this particular family we had been meeting with, but as they had a few sons I was not sure which son it was.

About a week later I answered the questions put to me. (The questions were sent to my father’s email, and he emailed them to me to prevent my knowing from which son the questions were coming. So crafty, as I was hoping for a clue from the email address.) I was then allowed to see the suitors answers and all but three were satisfactory. Those three we continued to discuss for the next month, and I was told who was seeking me: Brad. We saw each other once while these discussions were going on. It was a slightly nerve racking time for me because I was expecting at any time to be rejected, but even expecting that, I could not help but see the many good things in this man Brad, and to see he would be a good husband indeed. However, my answers could never have been as satisfactory as his, so I assumed he would soon come to his senses and tell me this was done. His family came to visit mine, and a week later we were engaged. (At a dance, it was all very romantic and beautiful.)

Two months after that we were married, and despite being told often and by many people what to expect, we have found it to be complete bliss. We have yet to encounter many of the hiccups we hear other couples talk about or even have a major disagreement.

I was asked to write this up to show my perspective of what my parents did. Truthfully, the only fault I have is, after Brad and I were engaged we were not allowed to hold hands. That is it. (I found out later it was not just my parents, my husband also did not think it was a good idea.)

I truly appreciate my parents keeping Brad’s identity from me, and that he was even interested, until he had already been approved. I am glad they did not tell me about the talks going on between his father and mine before Brad was told I would be a good match for him. I like to think I am usually level heading and wouldn’t have gotten stresses or worried about it. But after I was engaged and my emotions got rolling, I had a hard time controlling them and that was after I knew we were getting married. If I had known before, and there was a chance of it being called off, I don’t know what I would have done with myself.

I have been married over a year now, and I could not be happier. I see no signs whatever of my marriage not lasting forever, and everyday I thank God for my husband. I do not believe Brad or I have in anyway been damaged by our parents being involved in the process, quite the opposite in fact. We are both very happy that we got all the important questions out of the way and settled quickly so we could move on with getting married, being confident that our parents would let us know if we were rushing through disagreements merely because our emotions were aroused. We had no romantic relationship until married and I believe that was excellent. We of course got to know each other after marriage (Favorite colors, foods, movies, books, etc.) but with the benefit of no bedtimes, other people listening in, or physical boundaries, I firmly believe this was the best way for us, and I would not change anything. 

I don't have anything to add to that. 

All About Feelings for $500, Alex

Christians can have many opinions about the proper way to go about finding a spouse, about the proper "path to marriage," if you will. However, when a Christian begins to make claims about what the Bible says it is imperative such claims are backed with citations to Scripture. I recently read an internet posting in which a woman claimed that a certain practice needs to be repented of, and I managed to take offense at such a statement because I have engaged in that practice. Since she publicly made her objection, I shall publicly make my rebuttal. I shall respond to her objectionable statements one by one.

The Bible has a lot to say on this topic!
It teaches there is great wisdom in having *purpose* and being ready to marry before a single person begins to actively pursue a romantic relationship with another person.

She says the Bible has a lot to say on the subject of what she calls "pre-marriage relationships." As per the purpose of my blog post here I must ask, "Oh really? Where? What does the Bible have to say about pre-marriage relationships?" Is she talking about boyfriend/girlfriend relationships? Because the Bible doesn't mention them. If she is talking about those who are betrothed, the Bible likewise does not mention how such couples would interact, if at all.  Romantic relationships in Scripture are specifically restricted to those who are married. Romantic relationships outside of marriage are not mentioned at all, except within the context of extra-marital sexual contact, which is sin. The only possible exception is the Song of Solomon and the couple there are, at the very least, betrothed when speaking to each other in a romantic manner. I would refer my readers to my posts To Court or Not to Court, and Does Physical Contact Lead To Sex?  for my explanation on why romantic relationships outside of marriage are sinful.

My second objection is to her claim that the Bible talks about a single person having "*purpose* (sic) and being ready to marry" before pursuing a romantic relationship. She is clearly making a distinction between romantic relationships and marriage. Since I already covered that, I'll just deal with her claim that single people should have purpose and "be ready" to marry. What does that even mean? What makes a person ready to marry? What makes a person unready? The Bible gives no answers that I can find and if she wants to say the Bible DOES define these things, the burden is on her to show it. She doesn't even try. The entire quote above is just a lie. The Bible does not say what she claims it says, and no one is even questioning her on it! She just boldly makes the statements and gets a bunch of comments agreeing with her. It is just frightening what Christians will say and believe.

The Bible supports having the *parents* and families & more mature believers as involved as possible.

 Let's forget for a moment her use of the * in every paragraph, annoying as it is and address the content of her claim. The Bible does not support having a bunch of people involved in deciding whether a particular man and woman should marry. If it did, she could easily post her references. Instead, what do we see in the Bible? We see fathers deciding whether their son or daughter should marry and to whom they will be joined. In the case of Rebekah and Isaac, Rebekah's brother, Laban is also involved. Even in the New Testament we see Paul saying that the father of a virgin has the right to either give her in marriage or not. (1 Corinthians 7:36-38)  Here is the rub for her, SHE wants to be involved in the match-making of people who are not her own children. And in order to justify her meddling, she tells us that the Bible supports her meddlesome ways. She operates a facebook page where she acts like the matchmaker, Yenta, from Fiddler on the Roof, but she works directly with young men and women, rather than with their fathers. The Bible does not "support" this practice.

God's Word commands singles to *protect physical purity*. I think it wise to have boundaries and daily accountability to a parent or more mature Christian friend.

 Again with the *s. Anyway.....  God's Word says to all people, single and married, to "flee fornication." (1 Corinthians 6:18)  Daily accountability is not the same thing as simply fleeing or avoiding situations in which fornication could occur. As Douglas Wilson says in his book Her Hand In Marriage, "Don't heat up the oven if you aren't going to bake the bread." There is no way a person can be fleeing fornication while becoming physically affectionate with a person to whom he is not married. It is inappropriate outside of marriage. It isn't an issue of setting boundaries, unless those boundaries are the same as those that would apply between a single person and married person. For example, a single man should have no more physical contact with a single woman than he should with a married woman. Any woman who is not his wife is off limits to him. The Bible no more approves of unmarried people holding hands, kissing and hugging or petting than it does of oral sex. All sexual contact, from the least to the most intimate is approved for the married, but the Bible cannot be used to justify any contact that doesn't reach sexual intercourse for the unmarried. It just isn't in there.

To go against the God designed process of *REALLY* getting to know someone before marrying them.

 This is not a complete sentence, so it is difficult to understand her point here, but I object, quite adamantly, that God has designed a process for a man and woman to really get to know each other before marriage. God has NOT designed such a process, unless he revealed it to her personally. I will refer to one example in the Bible where God has shown us just the opposite, the marriage of Isaac and Rebekah. They got married before they knew each other AT ALL. They had never spoken to each other, and Isaac didn't even know who she was until she showed up at his tent. She is perfectly entitled to have the opinion that a man and woman should get to know one another before marriage, but she is NOT entitled to state that God prefers such a thing, requires such a thing or that He designed a process for such a thing. She is wrong. And it is a pretty frightening thing to be stating wrong things about God. Or it should be. 

It has also caused families to *hide* the fact that their single child is "getting to know someone" until it's certain that person is the one, for fear of shame. In addition to not being honest and open so others can learn how it *really* works, at the same time these hidden relationships perpetuate the false idea that people actually ARE marrying the first person they talk to.

 This is the part where I begin to take offense. As you may already know from reading about my daughter's arranged marriage here and here, we did not make it public that we were arranging a marriage until they were engaged. The woman who wrote the quote above is known to me, and I suspect that our daughter's arranged marriage is the only one she knows of where the matter was kept private until it was settled. She is making straw man arguments and is misrepresenting what we did and our motives for what we did (unless she knows of other people who would actually fit her description - which I highly doubt but remain open to being enlightened). What we did was to keep it private, we were not hiding anything. We had no fear of shame and I don't even understand what she could mean by that. Shame for what?  I guess she's upset that we didn't seek her input?  We were dishonest? We weren't open? What business was it of hers or anyone else? This woman takes "busy body" to new levels of height. As for letting others know how it *really* works, both my husband and I blogged about it and have made ourselves available to anyone who wants to discuss it. We have written extensively, although not exhaustively, about the dangers of public courtships and the potential for damaged reputations and the loss of perceived value in the eyes of potential suitors, but we never considered a failed marriage arrangement to be shameful. She has no basis for stating such a thing except for her own imaginations. I doubt if she has read what we have written and she has not personally asked us about our process or our reasons for how we conducted the arrangement. She did, however, provide a forum for people to bash us on her private match-making facebook page where we were unable to defend ourselves or respond to comments made about us. So much for her being honest and open.

She is also misrepresenting our process. Our daughter was not "talking to" her suitor. The fathers were talking to each other. We weren't "perpetuating" any false ideas about anything. Women who dream up ideas and then assign the origins of those ideas to others are fantasizing. We have never assigned any moral value to whether a father is able to secure a husband for his daughter on the first try, and I'm not sure why she is making an issue of it. I do believe that multiple courtships, where people are entering into romantic relationships and then ending them, is wrong. Since I believe that romantic relationships outside of marriage are little more than fornication light, obviously having multiple such relationships is repugnant to me. The authoress of the above quote may not think so, but she is not able to dictate how that sort of thing rates with potential suitors. She may believe that her daughters having been through multiple boyfriends doesn't diminish their value, but she really has no control whether men use that issue to cross those daughters off of their list. Likewise, I believe her son-in-law would not be happy to see the names of her daughter's former boyfriends/suitors being proclaimed publicly. Why would he want the whole world to know that he wasn't her first choice? How does the cause of being open and honest trump his dignity?   I believe it would be fabulous if every Christian reserved romantic relationships for within the bonds of matrimony, and therefore every Christian had only one romantic relationship. There is nothing wrong with promoting that standard within my family and within greater Christendom.

This is FALSE & a twisting of the Scriptures. Let us repent of black and white, of extra-biblical labels and ideas, of systems, rules and shame. Let's NOT confuse commands with opinions. Instead, let us stand confidently on God's Word & the certain and sure guidelines He's given for pre-marriage relationships.

 Calling others to repent is to accuse them of sin. This is probably best done in private, but she appears to have no idea what that word means. The one presenting extra-biblical ideas (such as romantic relationships outside of marriage) is this authoress. She is the one stating the "Bible says..." without citations. To close with a reference to the "sure guidelines He's given for pre-marriage relationships" is pretty ironic, when she didn't reference a single verse or passage from Scripture in her entire rant. By all means, steer us all to these "sure guidelines" as you call others to repent for violating them.

I hope she will follow this post with her biblical analysis, with citations, for the role that mothers and match-makers should play in bringing men and women together in marriage. The burden of proof is on her to justify her methods, I've already used the Scriptures to justify mine.

Finding a Spouse - WWJD?

Wouldn't it be great if we knew how God would find a bride for his Son?

Then, just to make sure we are understanding the picture correctly, and to give a hint of how we could do it, maybe God should give an example in the Bible of a godly man (maybe Abraham?) getting a bride for his son?

Naw. We should just invent stuff for ourselves. After all, if God wanted us to understand marriage better, He would have given us some direction.

A Working Definition of Marriage

For several years now I have been continuing to study marriage. Primarily I want my understanding of it to be formed by what God has revealed in the Scriptures. God ordained and instituted marriage, so any definition or description that contradicts what He ordained must necessarily be incorrect.

In addition to the Scriptures, I have also looked at history, at culture, and into the writings of others on the subject. In order for a working definition of marriage to be accurate, it must be universal. I covered this in an earlier post, but I will repeat it here because it is important to my conclusion. A marriage must be a marriage in every time, in every country, in every culture, or else it isn't a marriage in any. An accurate definition of marriage can be held up to any putative marriage and everyone should be able to conclude whether the relationship we are examining IS or IS NOT a marriage. There should be no question. This would include the first marriage, of Adam and Eve, and the marriages of tribal people, modern western people, and even the marriages formed under the auspices of pagan religions.

I would also like to address the question, "Why does this matter?" It matters because God has said that the transgression of His Law is sin. As believers, we are to purify ourselves, we are to repent of sin and to walk in righteousness. In order to do that, we must be able to identify sin and righteousness. In addition, since God has declared that marriages are created as a picture of the relationship between Christ and the Church, if we have an inaccurate view of marriage, we are lying about the gospel. God has said, "Thou shalt not commit adultery." God regulates sexual activity and He has stated the only place that sexual relations are permitted is within marriage. All sexual relations outside of marriage violate His command. This means that we must know whether we are in a marriage or not, and in terms of dealing with sin in the church and the greater community, we must know if other people are in marriages or not.

So here it is, my working definition of marriage:

A life-long union between a man and woman which has been publicly declared and sexually consummated, and where the union is not otherwise prohibited by the Law of God.

It has 5 elements which can be compared to any alleged marriage to see if it is, in fact, a marriage. Firstly a marriage is to last for the entire life of either the husband or wife. In some marriage ceremonies we hear the words, "For as long as you both shall live." Marriages do not extend beyong the death of one of the parties, they don't last into heaven, but neither can they be temporary, ending before the death of one of the parties.

In the past it would have seemed silly to mention that one party to a marriage needs to be a man and one needs to be a woman, but recent history requires me to assert that if this second element is not present, there is no marriage. This is true because God specifically ordained the sexes for marriage at the time He instituted marriage and also because God has prohibited sexual relations between those of the same sex in His Law.

The third element is a public declaration. There is no such thing as a secret marriage. Violating a marriage can be a death penalty offense, so those who are married have a duty to the rest of the world to hold themselves out as married.

The fourth element is sexual consummation. Husbands and wives are not mere roommates, they are sexual partners. There is no such thing as a platonic marriage.  We also need the fifth element, where no marriage can exist contrary to the Law of God because God has specifically forbidden certain people from marrying each other, even if they meet all the elements, such as mothers and sons.

Some people would try to add other elements or place other types burdens on the simplicity of marriage, but that becomes problematic when questions start to be asked, such as, "Were Adam and Eve married?" "Are people who were forced into marriages really married?" "How can we determine if the people in our church who are living together and/or having sex are actually married?"

This simple definition of marriage also makes it easy to distinguish between a man and woman who are betrothed (covenanted to marry) and a man and woman who are married. 

Arranging a Marriage - Part 2

If you haven't yet read Part 1 of  "Arranging a Marriage" you may want to do that before jumping in here, although it isn't absolutely necessary.

After the marriage of our first daughter, my husband (hereinafter "Dad") approached our second daughter with a very serious proposition. She was 16 years old at that time. Dad asked our daughter (Let's call her Jennifer) to trust him to find a husband for her. By this he meant that she would agree not to pursue the attraction of any man and would not dwell on or try to form any relationship with any man. He also told her that she must not attempt to steer him toward any particular man and that if she brought up the name of any man in that context that the young man would be scratched from the list of potential suitors. Much to our surprise and pleasure, she assented immediately and never wavered from her commitment.

One of the benefits of this agreement which we predicted and which we observed to have been true was that our daughter was liberated from the competitive nature of social interactions. When we attended events ranging from picnics to dances to potlucks, she never had to view them as opportunities to snag a fellow or to attempt to out-shine her young lady acquaintances.  This is not to say that she didn't feel the pressure that all young ladies feel to present herself as an attractive person and wife-material, but that she was able to rest in the promise of her father and could therefore enjoy all outings with the liberty of treating all others equally and without testing whether she could monopolize the attentions of any single person. For example, at dances, she didn't have to despair if the evening passed and one certain young man didn't ask her to dance, because if he was to be her husband, her Dad would take care of it, regardless of the young man's dancing partner choices.

From the time of the agreement's commencement, Dad began to take very seriously his promise to find a husband for Jennifer. He even left her an out. If Dad failed to find a husband for Jennifer by the age of 26, he would release her from her commitment and she would be  permitted to seek a husband in any manner that she believed would work. Naturally Dad intended to work very hard to make sure that clause of the agreement would never come into play!

As I relate my version of how Jennifer came to be married I want to emphasize, as I did in Part 1, that while facts are facts, my perceptions and therefore my descriptions of what took place may not exactly match how my husband or daughter would describe it. As Jennifer's mother I was not an outsider to the process and the events, but I was on the fringes, not in the middle, as the bulk of the negotiations, questioning and arranging took place between Dad and the father of the groom. Sometimes I knew about their discussions, sometimes I did not. My husband consulted me whenever he knew that my input would be valuable or when my knowledge of plans would further our goals of confidentiality and discretion.

On to the story! The church that we attend does not have any other families in it. Because of that, we had to travel in order to come into contact with men and to form networks of friends and acquaintances from which we could find a husband for Jennifer. Dad called this "trolling my daughter." In case you are not familiar with fishing terms, it refers to dragging a baited hook behind a boat while the boat moves through the water. Our other option was to sit at home and pray for a husband to come. While this is certainly within God's abilities, we did not feel it was an appropriate option. There is no other important thing in our life in which we sit at home and just wait, or even just wait and pray, for a great thing to occur. We don't do this with getting food or clothing, we don't do it concerning work or forming other relationships, and we don't believe the Bible teaches that it is the norm for God to just send a husband out into the boondocks to our door to obtain our daughter as his wife. So we took action.

In this case, we visited other churches where we knew there were like-minded families. This networking led to us forming friendships with families who would introduce us to other families. This sort of thing can be done on the internet, and that may work well for some families. We had really wanted to give our daughter in marriage to a family with which we had formed a friendship that included the parents as well as the potential suitor. Our first choice would be for Dad to be arranging a marriage with another father, rather than directly with the would-be husband, and therefore in-person friendships seemed a better route to that particular destination. Also, in our particular situation with this daughter, we didn't want her marrying someone who had no intention of  living near us, so arranging a marriage with a man who lived in anther country or on the other side of this one was not an option for this daughter.

After several years of trolling and of Dad making inquiries with other fathers, we received a communication from some very close friends inviting us to visit the church they had recently started attending. Our friends live in a largish city about 3 hours from our home and we had attended worship with them at their former church on several occasions without furthering the goal of finding a husband for our daughter. This new church, they informed us, was made up mostly of very large home-educating families and many of these families had adult sons who needed wives. We were intrigued by the prospect and made plans to spend a weekend with our friends.

The first thing I noticed when I walked into their church was the small children out-numbered the adults by about 2  to 1. The second thing I noticed was a large number of young adults, both men and women, which was something completely lacking in our own congregation. After worship, we were invited to the home of one of the larger families. Our friends were also invited so we all made our way to the rural home of our new friends. I walked into the living room of their home and there were 4 or 5 young men scattered around the large room. I thought to myself, "How many families did they invite over here?" In a few minutes I discovered that all of these young men were the sons of the family who lived here. In fact, they have 10 sons and 3 daughters. None of them are married. Four of the sons were wanting to be married, the four oldest ranged in age from 20 to 26. Naturally, I tried to contain my obvious interest and excitement, this was like the suitor jackpot!

Because the time-line of events will be of interest to some readers, I will state that this first meeting took place on the 14th of December, 2014. Just slightly over one year from the date of this writing.  There was no talk of marriage during this visit but it was clear that, marriage or no marriage, these people were going to be our friends for life. We had much in common, we had children close in ages, we shared philosophies about politics, government, home education, the Kingdom of God, etc.

About a month later, in mid January, we made a second visit. This visit included attending worship with them, having a meal at their home and attending an evening social event. After this visit, Dad began an email exchange with the father (Let's call him James) with the express purpose of discussing arranged marriage. James had never even given arranged marriage any thought, their family was more courtship-minded, and so the first email exchanges consisted of Dad describing what he meant by the term arranged marriage and how he thought such a thing might go. James was taking it all in and evaluating whether he liked the idea and whether any of his sons would possibly be open to an arranged marriage.

During these talks, no son was singled out as the object of interest, as the discussion involved mostly principles and not details. How would they arrange a marriage if they decided to do that? How long would it take? Who would be involved? What would be the process? Etc. Their goal was to bring the marrying couple into the process as late in the game as practically possible.

Both fathers were committed to complete discretion. And by that, I mean secrecy. Only the parents would know about the negotiations. This was for the protection of the sons and the daughter (we only had one daughter of age to marry, so it was clear that it was Jennifer). If for any reason the fathers decided that the process should not move forward, the children would be none the wiser and no one would be hurt or have their reputations damaged by a "failed"  relationship. In fact, there would be no relationship to fail.

During that time, and all the way up to the wedding itself, there was no relationship, or special romantic relationship between Jennifer and the young man she married (We will call him Robert). For most of the time she did not know about the negotiations between Dad and James, and even when she began to suspect something, she did not know which son was being discussed. The only contact she had with Robert was through church and social events involving both families, and usually other families as well. For example, we attended an event with them towards the end of January, a beach birthday party for a home-educated mutual friend. During these contacts there was no special contact between Jennifer and Robert, they did not single each other out for special treatment or spend time together. They played games and danced and sang and treated each other in the same manner as they treated everyone else.

This might be a good point to explain our policy about the "no romantic involvement". It is explained more completely in my post "To Court or Not to Court", so I will just address it briefly here. To a man, every woman in the world can be placed into two distinct categories for him. The first category is "my wife." For the sake of argument, let's just say that only one woman could fit in that category and for many young men, NO woman fits in that category. EVERY OTHER woman is in the other category, "not my wife." The women who are not his wife, are going to be, or already are the wives of other men. Since no man can lawfully be in a romantic relationship with the wife of another man, Dad cannot justify any sort of romantic involvement between Jennifer and any man until they are married. Period. There is no biblical category such as girlfriend or finance where a woman is not the wife, but is something more than other women.

We didn't see James' family at all in February, although Dad and James continued their email correspondence where they were finding out about and evaluating each other, and by proxy evaluating their children. In the beginning of March our family hosted a dance and James' family attended and spent the night with our family.  Because of the distance between our homes, we rarely, if ever, had a visit that was just for one day. Dad's parents have a large home with many guest rooms and they live next door to us, so we were able to accommodate James' large family for overnight visits without compromising the morals of our children. When we visited their family we stayed with friends or with Dad's brother, who lives only 20 minutes drive from James' family. Additionally, James has a rental home on the property adjacent to his own home which was not occupied during the time of our visitations and we sometimes stayed there. The week following our dance, James' family hosted a dance and we traveled to their town to attend the dance, attend worship and share a meal with them. In case you are keeping track, by the end of March our families had visited together 5 times.

We saw James' family one time during April and by that time the communications concerning the possible arranged marriage had been narrowed down to the son Robert, with another son as possible choice. Two sons had been eliminated. From our perspective, all four of the sons would have made acceptable husbands for our daughter, it was their father who had determined that only two would be good matches for Jennifer based upon many factors including timing, common interests, etc. At that time, Robert was finishing up his college studies and was working on a senior project and James did not want to distract him from that with marriage talk until after graduation.

We did not see James' family in May, but Robert graduated in the middle of the month and his father approached him with the idea of arranging a marriage for him with Jennifer and Robert said that, yes, he would like his father to continue pursuing that route. Jennifer was still not told anything although she was aware that Dad was talking to James, she was unaware of the particulars and she did not know that Robert was the son being discussed.

Once Robert was brought into the process Dad presented him with a questionnaire covering many aspects of life including theology, future plans, marriage, health, children, finances, etc. The purpose of the questionnaire was not to rule Robert out as a suitor, as we were pretty sure at that point there was nothing about this young man that would disqualify him. The purpose was to make sure he was aware of the many, many potential friction areas in marriage and to know ahead of the marriage which ones were going to be in question between Jennifer and himself. Also it would provide an opportunity to offer teaching or counseling if he expressed ideas that were unbiblical or if he needed further instruction in any area. After Robert answered the questions and there were follow-up questions to some of his responses, we asked him to prepare questions for Jennifer.

The questions prepared for Jennifer did not reveal that Robert was the suitor and we did not tell her because we wanted her to answer the questions as honestly as possible without attempting to tailor her answers to a certain man. After she had submitted her responses to Robert, we allowed her to see how he had answered the questionnaire and told her that Robert was the man. They were then permitted to ask each other follow-up questions through Dad. They were not permitted to email each other directly.

During the course of the questions going back and forth James' family visited with us twice as they stayed with us while going to and coming from their family vacation in California. For those keeping track, at that point we had visited together 8 times.

As soon as the two of them were satisfied that they understood each other's answers, Robert asked Dad if he could propose marriage to Jennifer.  This was merely a formality and a romantic nod to the culture. On June 20, 2015, our two families attended a dance and Robert proposed to Jennifer on the dance floor. She said, "Yes." At that point, Robert announced loudly to everyone in the room, "Jennifer and I are engaged." There was complete shock. The only people who knew a proposal was coming were Robert and both sets of parents. None of his siblings had any idea that anything was happening.

The rest of the evening was great fun for us as we answered the question, "How long have they been courting?" with "They haven't been courting at all." Dad was able to corral a bunch of other fathers into a group and extol the benefits of arranged marriage. Because we are strong supporters of short engagements, by the end of the night we had pretty much settled on August 29, 2015 for the wedding date.

The next morning, at James' church, after worship James announced the engagement to the absolute astonishment of everyone in the room. We had lunch with James' family before heading back to our own home.

Between the time of the engagement and the wedding we visited with James' family twice. The only communication between Robert and Jennifer was via group email as we made plans for the wedding. Robert and Jennifer had no sort of romantic involvement at all. When Dad presented Jennifer to Robert, as his wife, the entire crowd of witnesses literally witnessed the very beginning of their romance as Robert kissed Jennifer.

You can use the comments below to ask questions, I will do my best to answer them. My husband is still working on writing more about how we came to choose an arranged marriage and how we did it. It is turning into a small book, but when finished it will be available through my blog or directly through him. If you would like to talk with him directly, let me know in the comments and I will connect you.

Arranging a Marriage - Part One

I don't usually talk about myself or my family on my blog. For the most part, I prefer to muse aloud about various topics and to speak of those subjects in principle. The whole point, however, in trying to figure out what the Bible says and what God requires from us, is that I might conform my behavior, as well as my thoughts, to what is good and what is right. When it comes to my family, I don't do this alone. I am married and my husband is the leader, so I don't want it to sound like I come up with these bright ideas and then force him to implement them. Rather, we usually study together and much conversation takes place before and during changes in our lifestyle, and it is my husband who makes the final call. In the case of arranged marriage, my husband was also the initiator and I had to be convinced (it wasn't that difficult of a case for him to make, though) that changes needed to be made in how we approached obtaining husbands and wives for our children.

We have two married children, both are daughters. The first daughter participated in what we were calling courtship. The second daughter had her marriage arranged by her father. Both marriages are good. We didn't decide to use arrangement because we believe it is the only way for a marriage to succeed, but because we believe it offers the least chance for moral failure, broken hearts and abuse of young men. We also believe it most closely follows the way God the Father chose a bride for His Son. My conclusions about courtship can be found in my post "To Court or Not to Court."

The story about how we arranged a marriage for our second daughter will be divided into 2 parts, to make it easier to swallow. Part One will be my description of the courtship of our oldest daughter, so you can see the comparison and see how we changed things for our second daughter. What you are reading here is my recollection only, from my point of view as her mother. I don't pretend to speak for my husband or daughter in this narrative and I don't doubt that some aspects would be described differently by them. To help protect their identities, I will refer to my daughter and son-in-law as Mary and John.

During the first week of January, 2009, John contacted my husband to ask if he could pursue our daughter. I don't recall if that was the precise term he used, but it adequately expresses what was about to occur. My husband (I'll call him Dad) already knew this young man and his family. John's father was an elder at our church. At that point, Dad approved John as a husband for Mary and gave John permission to convince Mary that they should marry. Dad outlined the ground rules as follows:
1. No dating
2. Communication was to be by mail or email only
3. They were to focus their communications specifically on finding out where they stood on various issues that could result in them eliminating the other as a spouse. Find out as quickly as possible whether they want to marry. No subjects were off-limits.

The "no dating" rule was very easy to comply with, because they were living on opposite coasts. They were not happy about not being able to speak on the phone, but Dad felt they needed to avoid unnecessary emotional attachment in case it didn't work out. They failed pretty much completely to ask each other good questions. As it turns out, people who have never been married don't have really good ideas about what is important in marriage, they assume they know where the other person stands, or they are too embarrassed to ask.

Around May, Mary told us that she "just wasn't feeling it." She didn't feel they were connecting very well. On Memorial Day weekend, John flew out to our place for a surprise visit. When he walked into our house, there was a palpable energy. We could almost see the hearts fluttering out of Mary's chest. She was completely smitten by his presence and it was so hot in the room that I thought fireworks were about to erupt. He took her out to eat and proposed marriage. She accepted. He returned to the city of his employment and we set the wedding for the latter part of August. From the day of his proposal, Mary was so distracted and twitterpated that she was nearly useless in her household duties. We prefer short engagements for this reason (and others) and this engagement wasn't nearly short enough. During the engagement period they were permitted to continue emailing and Dad also permitted a weekly phone call and any phone calls necessary for the wedding preparations. If they had been living close together, I don't think we could have limited their romantic involvement with any measure of success.

One of the huge downfalls to this whole affair was that John's family let everyone in church know about the courtship as soon as it began. I couldn't talk to any of the women at church without someone asking me about the "couple" until I made it clear that they were not a couple and that it wasn't open for discussion. I'm glad they got married, because if Mary had rejected John,  it would have been a complete humiliation for him. It would have damaged his reputation with the other young ladies to the point that he probably wouldn't have been able to pursue any of them. I understand the excitement of the church. The prospect of two member families having their children marry was a dream-come-true for the young church. But it doesn't excuse the junior-high level silliness that proceeded from most of the women and some of the men. 

Over all, it was not a great experience and there were many potential disasters that, thankfully, didn't happen. Dad decided that it would be different next time, and it was.

I'll be posting the link to Part Two of the story right here after I write it.