What do people mean by "leading others to Christ"? Is this a Scriptural directive, command or principle? Does the Bible allude to such a concept? Anywhere?
But it sounds good. Sounds sort of "spiritual" doesn't it?
Arranged Marriage: a daughter's perspective
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It's a good thing we've been waiting a year on this perspective. I think
it gives time for the daughter to really come to terms with what happened
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8 years ago
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Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Romans 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Peter and the Eunuch
Paul and jailer
Paul and Lydia
Read Acts. All through Acts they are preaching the gospel in every place. (Acts 5:42)
The gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. There is no need to go out and preach the gospel if men didn't need Christ.
The disciples were not out of the will of God by going and preaching and teaching the gospel unto men all through the New Testament.
Acts 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
Paul was attemting to persuade Agrippa. Persuading is a type of leading or attempting to lead.
Paul never forgot his own salvation on the Damascus road. He tells his testimony over and over again to those he comes into contact with.
I know you've said several times that just because certain people did certain acts in the bible does that mean we do them too? I get what your saying but there is another angle to that.These are written for our example.
1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1 Thessalonians 1:7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.
In 1 Thessalonians 1 Paul (Silvanus and Timothy) is talking to a church and specifically says to this church
1 Thessalonians 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:
the word "became" speaks of them being something else before. The something else here would be that they were not followers of the Lord. Somebody told them of Christ! Somebody led them to Christ.
I think you are mostly making my point. What the Bible commands us to do is "preach the gospel". I see that we were lost. I see that Christ came to seek and save those that are lost. I don't see any middle man who connects us together. Yes, the gospel comes through a preacher, but when people use the term "lead someone to Christ" they do not mean standing up and preaching the gospel, it refers to a sort of one-on-one, ending in leading someone to say the "sinner's prayer". (Ugh! This is getting worse by the minute). As I was taught, and I heard the term being used, there were actual elements to "leading someone to Christ" beyond sharing the good news. It usually involved convincing the person he was a sinner, explaining the wages of sin, explaining Christ as Messiah and THEN a bit on the death, burial and resurrection before asking the person to "commit to Christ" or "Ask Jesus into his heart", or some such thing. Even though there is no record in Scripture of a person following such a path in order to be saved. Who led Paul to Christ? Who led Moses? Who led Abraham or David? Who told the Philippian jailer that he needed to be saved?
God uses the foolishness of PREACHING, not the foolishness of PREACHERS. Even Paul said that God uses the preaching of those who preach the gospel with evil motives. The power, the leading, if there is any, comes from the gospel itself and from Christ Himself. We flatter ourselves if we believe we bring people to salvation in Christ. HE searches and HE finds them without our assistance.
I still think you are either mixing up or lumping together dispensationalism and easy believeism.
The Philippian jailer asked Paul what he must do to be saved (I'm assuming that the opened doors of the prison and paul still being in attendance:P were the events that led this man to thinking he need Christ.) He asked them what he must do to be save and they told him to believe on Jesus and he would be saved. Why would they tell him to believe if he had already believed? He didn't know how to be saved. He saw his need and was helpless to know what to do. So he asked and they "led" him to Christ by telling him to believe on Jesus.
I know it is the Holy Spirit who draws men to Christ. He uses preachers to preach the gospel so that men can be led by the Holy Spirit. No good thing comes from the flesh but God uses the foolishness of preaching to save those that believe. (1 Corinthians 1:21)
When I was a little girl of 5 a neighbor set me on her lap and told me about Christ, heaven, hell, the return of Christ for his bride and several other facts about Jesus. She planted the seed, others watered it until at 24 God gave the increase and I was saved. I consider that woman foundational to my being "led" to Christ. I would say she helped "lead" me to Christ.
That is exactly what I'm thinking when I hear someone say they were led to Christ or when people talk about leading others to Christ. Tell them about Jesus.
My husband was key to me being led to Christ. He became a faithful witness in my life. He still in many ways leads me to Christ. I have friends that I would say helped lead me to Christ. Not that they were trying to convince me that I a sinner but with their own faithful walk with Jesus, I wanted to follow or be led to what they had with him.
The Holy Spirit led Paul to Christ. And God used Paul to lead others to him. Man (preachers) are not the givers of salvation but an avenue God uses to bring men to salvation.
Are we not agreeing over the use of words? In particular the use of the word "lead" or "led?"
No. We are not agreeing. I am talking about the task, the work, the activity referred to as "leading people to Christ". As in, "How many people have you lead to Christ?" Referring to an event. I'm not talking about on-going long term relationships. I'm not talking about seed planting or watering. Both of which are Scriptural. In terms of "leading" someone to Christ, the Scriptures don't mention it at all. Leading is something a leader does, and it puts an imperative on the follower to follow. That is, to follow the leader. As a shepherd leads his sheep. If I share the gospel with a friend, and she believes, I have not "led" her, and she was not "following" me.
My basic complaint is that we (Christians in general) have a tendency to make up our own terms for things when the Bible already has perfectly legitimate words for describing those principles. Then, after we invent terms, we start to attach spiritual significance to them and through them around as if God Himself intended for those activities to go by those names, but He just forgot to mention it in His Word.
My point about the Philippian jailer is that NO ONE told him he needed to be saved. I see so called "evangelists" spending all their time trying to convince people that they need a Savior. This is not Biblical evangelism, which is nothing more than the gospel message.
How did God save people before Jesus came? Did people in the Old Testament "lead people to Christ?" Examples? The sovereignty of God, rightly understood, is that God alone saves. Salvation is a work of God from beginning to end, with no other humans intervening, leading people to it, responding to the Holy Spirit's call...etc. Only those who have been born of the Spirit can respond to God. All others are DEAD and dead people don't do anything. Salvation has been the same since Genesis, unlike what is taught by dispensational theology, that there are 7 separate dispensations of time and that God dealt in a different manner with mankind in each dispensation. Dispensationalism teaches more than one way of salvation, while reformed theology teaches only one. God elects his people. Period.
I don't have a problem with the term "leading others to Christ" as you are referring to it. While the bible doesn't say that, the principal is there. The bible doesn't say Trinity either but that is commonly used term to describe the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
Its like splitting hairs to me.
The bible doesn't say this so this is my opinion but as for the jailer, I think he knew who Paul and his friends were. They were some popular , much talked about people in those times. So while the bible doesn't say anyone told him of his need for salvation, I would say he had heard all about them and what they were imprisoned for. These were the early days after Jesus had ascended to Heaven. Every one knew about the disciples and Paul the Pharisee who had converted to Christ.
I don't get your beef with evangelical preachers. Paul, Peter, James, John and many other NT disciples spent the rest of their lives preaching the cross that others might come to Christ. Paul said he wished himself accursed from Christ for his kinsmen. (Israel) He was in continual sorrow and heaviness for his brethren that they might be saved. What is a preacher of the Gospel supposed to do? They preach the Gospel. They should be concerned with the souls of men.
I don't understand a lot about dispensationalism. I've only become more familiar with the term through you and other reformed people.
I believe that OT saints looked for the coming Messiah and had faith he would come (because of Abraham believing the promises of God and it being accounted unto him for righteousness.) Much like we believe and have faith that Christ DID come, the OT saints believed and had faith that he WOULD come. I don't see the means of salvation any different for either. The whole OT points to Christ. The prophets were preaching Christ back then too. The whole NT points to Christ.
Why would Jesus tell Nicodemus "Ye must be born again" if he was already born again?
I don't think Christ was talking about Nicodemus individually or commenting on whether he was or was not born again. If I said to you, "in order to be a child of God, you must be born again." I am stating a fact. You might say, "oh." Or you might say, "I have already been born again." Or, you might, like Nicodemus ask how such a thing is possible! Obviously Nicodemus didn't know if he was or was not already born again, because he didn't know what it was. The reformed view would say that a person doesn't need to KNOW what the new birth is in order to have it. (just like physical birth - the baby can't understand that it has been born, but finds out later). If knowing and understanding the new birth is the means for being saved, then babies and the mentally deficient are excluded. If the new birth isn't the means of salvation, then why would Jesus say "You MUST be born again?"
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